Hi!
I have a Bachelor's thesis with an end-effector on a robot, KUKA KR210. I am mostly an mechinical engineer but i start to get intrested in programming and robots. For this project i am thinking about having cameras on the end-effector as a safety feature to give the end-effector "eyes" and can act as an emergancy stop if a human is to close. This end-effector is used in an industry production line and needs to be safe for a fitter to work along side with
Is this possible to implement? If yes, how should i do it?
Note; i am very new to this am afraid, but really like to learn and make it work
Originally posted by Anton on ROS Answers with karma: 1 on 2017-03-28
Post score: 0
Original comments
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
I don't want to discourage you, and for a BSc it's probably ok, but a camera connected to a RPi with ROS is never going to get safety-rated. What you are describing ("emergency stop if a human is to close [..] needs to be safe for a fitter to work along side with") is definitely possible ..
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
.. but please consider that companies in this line of work (ie: safety-lasers, co-bots) spend tens of thousands of dollars developing and getting their equipment certified. A KR210 is easily capable of killing a human, so please be careful: never make your RPi the only system.
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
Thanks for the reply!
I see, so to get safety-rated level there's a need for a more powerful computer? Or is it the concept with cameras and the pictureprocessing that makes the reactiontimes to slow to be used as an emergency stop?
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
No, my point was that making software and hardware really suitable for safety critical applications (which acting as an emergency stop is an example of) is hard and difficult. I'd recommend you try and talk to someone with knowledge in this field before you start.
But this all depends on ..
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
.. what the scope of your work is: if this is a one-off experiment for a BSc, and you're tutored by knowledgable people and your KR210 has additional safety measures in place, then it could be ok to test with your ROS application.
But don't put this in a production system -- with uninformed ..
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
.. users -- where there is a risk of really hurting people or damaging equipment.
Again, scope is important here, but I just wanted to point to some possible dangers.
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
and finally:
so to get safety-rated level ..
there are some experimental computer vision based systems that do something similar to this, but 1) I don't know whether they've already been certified and 2) "getting safety-rated" is probably not doable for you.
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
The scope, a robot picks up a plasticpanel and then place it under a car, then a fitter will assemble it with screws. The car will move with a constant speed and the robot with the panel will move along. So we need to make the layout and the end-effector safe for the fitter with ..
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
.. safety-rated solutions. So it may be hard to reach that level within the time for a BSc i guess?
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
Also, this BSc is for a car manufacturer and they may be using this solution
Comment by NEngelhard on 2017-03-28:
Pilz has a certified camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UCD77s1qvI
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
The Pilz system that @NEngelhard mentions would indeed be an option. But that would be a completely different approach, as you would basically be integrating some existing systems. I had the impression that you wanted to do 'everything' yourself.
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:\
So it may be hard to reach that level within the time for a BSc i guess?
this may sound harsh, but the fact that you are asking this gives me the impression that you're not really aware of what is involved/at stake.
Please talk to someone at the "car manufacturer" about robot safety.
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
The Pilz systems will i look into further, that seems very promising. Ofcourse would it be fun to do everything for myself. But in this BSc it's enough to do a layout of a safe working area, even with existing safety-rated systems. I really appreciate all the help and alternatives i can get! ..
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:\
But in this BSc it's enough to do a layout of a safe working area, even with existing safety-rated systems
then why is your question titled: "is ros for me - a non hardcore programmer"? Integrating a pilz camera with a robot controller and some safety zones is not ROS-related at all?
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
The title is used since i want to try to use something that can be used in my BSc and found ROS that covered my problem, but my knowledge is limited in this area. Thought ROS would be an application that i could use or there would be people with more knowledge than me that could be off help ..
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
and you seem to know alot which why i ask some questions with an open mind with different approaches
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
What i mean with "So it may be hard to reach that level within the time for a BSc i guess?" if there's alot of developing and certifications needed, which you meantioned in the beginning, to reach a safety-rated level solution with cameras and ROS. In that case i don't have time to do that
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
I guess I automatically assumed that you already had made up your mind and were just inquiring as to whether this was all possible using ROS. A mistake on my part.
But safety-rated stuff is difficult, and mistakes dangerous and costly. There are better tools for that than ROS right now ..
Comment by gvdhoorn on 2017-03-28:
.. but we are working on that and there are several initiatives underway to make ROS the go-to tool for such applications as well.
Not that that will help you right now, but I wanted to mention it.
Comment by Anton on 2017-03-28:
I see, then ROS may not be the application for us then. I thank you so much for the help!